I don’t recall to be fair. Let me try again
Tried it and I’m getting a weird error, with something about margin account being available (I have a cash account).
The funds I’m trying to use have been transferred on Monday (CHF wire), so I don’t expect them to be still locked.
I’ll probably ask support…
I looked into one of the Mutual Funds:
It lists the following costs:
- Initial charge: 3.00%
- Current management fee: 0.16% p.a.
- Ongoing charges: 0.07% p.a.
Do we need to pay 3% just to buy the fund? How can we buy MFs? Can we buy them on IBKR or Degiro?
The 3% is the maximum charge, it’s up to the broker. For typical execution-only online brokers, there should be no such charge. Check the broker trade conditions for details.
It’s available at Swissquote but doesn’t seem to be available at IBKR.
Just to take this thread asking a different but related question.
Any suggestion of what money market fund in CHF I can invest with IB?
Check what’s available on IBKR from the list here: Short guide to CHF fixed income options
I just did a search on IBKR using the Mutual Fund Scanner
- Title includes “CHF” (make sense?)
- Fund Type: Money Market
- Country: Switzerland
And here are the 22 results
My questions are
a) Is the search criteria make sense? Did I miss anything?
b) what does all these share class mean, or how I can find the answer?
b) Any one has invested in any of them, to replace savings account?
c) PERFORMANCE - YTD seems to be around 0.2% for the best ones here, do they make sense? How come savings account can give me 1% - 1.5% interest at the cost of inflexibility?
d) How would you choose among them if you just see the table the first time?
|FUND NAME||SYMBOL||FUND FAMILY||FUND TYPE||TRANSACTION FEE||LOAD TYPE||MANAGEMENT FEES||EXPENSE RATIO %||PERFORMANCE - YTD||LIPPER RATING||SHARPE RATIO||GEOGRAPHICAL FOCUS||ESG SCORE||AUM||ISIN||CUSIP||SHARE CLASS||INITIAL INVESTMENT|
|LO FUNDS (CH)-SHORT-TERM MONEY MARKET M (CHF) INC||N/A||LOMBARD ODIER AM (CH)||Money Market||Yes||N/A||0.12||N/A||0.17||N/A||-0.0491047||Global||N/A||131497800||CH0224283041||022428304||M||0|
|LO FUNDS - SHORT-TERM MONEY MARKET (CHF) N (CHF) INC||N/A||LOMBARD ODIER FUNDS (EUROPE) (LU)||Money Market||Yes||N/A||0.11||N/A||0.15||N/A||-0.2619481||Global||N/A||4033133.26||LU0995143889||099514388||N||1000000|
|LO FUNDS - SHORT-TERM MONEY MARKET (CHF) P (CHF) INC B||N/A||LOMBARD ODIER FUNDS (EUROPE) (LU)||Money Market||No||N/A||0.11||N/A||0.11||N/A||-0.4999522||Global||N/A||2983872.69||LU0995143616||099514361||P||3000|
|LO FUNDS SHORT TERM MONEY MARKET (CHF) M (CHF) ACC||N/A||LOMBARD ODIER FUNDS (EUROPE) (LU)||Money Market||Yes||N/A||0.12||N/A||0.13||N/A||-0.4659314||Global||N/A||70949417.03||LU0995143962||099514396||M||3000|
|LO FUNDS SHORT TERM MONEY MARKET (CHF) N (CHF) ACC||N/A||LOMBARD ODIER FUNDS (EUROPE) (LU)||Money Market||Yes||N/A||0.11||N/A||0.15||N/A||-0.2613286||Global||N/A||197861086.4||LU0995143707||099514370||N||1000000|
|LO FUNDS SHORT-TERM MONEY MARKET (CHF) P (CHF) ACC||N/A||LOMBARD ODIER FUNDS (EUROPE) (LU)||Money Market||No||N/A||0.11||N/A||0.11||N/A||-0.5001521||Global||N/A||37098561.3||LU0995143533||099514353||P||3000|
|NEW CAPITAL FUND LUX CASH A (CHF) ACC||N/A||EFG AM (LU)||Money Market||No||N/A||0.15||N/A||N/A||N/A||N/A||European Region||N/A||N/A||LU0585204893||058520489||A||100|
|NEW CAPITAL FUND LUX CASH M (CHF) ACC||N/A||EFG AM (LU)||Money Market||Yes||N/A||0.1||N/A||N/A||N/A||N/A||European Region||N/A||N/A||LU1066142883||106614288||M||100|
|PICTET (CH) ENHANCED LIQUIDITY (CHF) I INC||N/A||PICTET AM (CH)||Money Market||Yes||N/A||0.1||N/A||0.2||N/A||0.4490843||Global||N/A||398299743.01||CH0021732877||002173287||I||1000000|
|PICTET (CH) ENHANCED LIQUIDITY (CHF) P INC||N/A||PICTET AM (CH)||Money Market||Yes||N/A||0.13||N/A||0.19||N/A||0.302917||Global||N/A||11764160.28||CH0021732604||002173260||P||0|
|PICTET (CH) SHORT-TERM MONEY MARKET (CHF) P INC||N/A||PICTET AM (CH)||Money Market||Yes||N/A||0.08||N/A||0.21||N/A||0.5407606||Global||N/A||885171701.76||CH0011292312||001129231||P||0|
|PICTET (CH) SHORT-TERM MONEY MARKET (CHF)I INC||N/A||PICTET AM (CH)||Money Market||Yes||N/A||0.06||N/A||0.21||N/A||0.7089342||Global||N/A||3509702915.93||CH0011292304||001129230||I||0|
|PICTET F(CH) SOVEREIGN SHORT-TERM MONEY MARKET (CHF) I INC||N/A||PICTET AM (CH)||Money Market||Yes||N/A||0.02||N/A||0.17||N/A||-0.912282||OECD Countries||N/A||158788627.14||CH0038724784||003872478||I||1000000|
|PICTET F(CH) SOVEREIGN SHORT-TERM MONEY MARKET (CHF) P D||N/A||PICTET AM (CH)||Money Market||Yes||N/A||0.03||N/A||0.16||N/A||-1.009507||OECD Countries||N/A||43457068.85||CH0038724818||003872481||P||0|
|PICTET SHORT-TERM MONEY MARKET (CHF) I ACC||N/A||PICTET AM (EUROPE) (LU)||Money Market||Yes||N/A||0.05||N/A||0.2||N/A||0.2968874||International||N/A||939798485.44||LU0128499158||L7597H277||I||1000000|
|PICTET SHORT-TERM MONEY MARKET (CHF) P ACC||N/A||PICTET AM (EUROPE) (LU)||Money Market||Yes||N/A||0.06||N/A||0.2||N/A||0.2398493||International||N/A||235424821.1||LU0128498267||L7597H285||P||0|
|PICTET SHORT-TERM MONEY MARKET (CHF) P INC||N/A||PICTET AM (EUROPE) (LU)||Money Market||Yes||N/A||0.06||N/A||0.2||N/A||0.239971||International||N/A||33843548.73||LU0128498697||L7597H293||P||0|
|PICTET SHORT-TERM MONEY MARKET (CHF) R ACC||N/A||PICTET AM (EUROPE) (LU)||Money Market||Yes||N/A||0.09||N/A||0.19||N/A||0.0714629||International||N/A||141849110.25||LU0128499588||L7597H301||R||1000|
|SWISSCANTO (LU) MONEY MARKET FUND RESPONSIBLE CHF DT (CHF) ACC||N/A||SWISSCANTO AM INTL (LU)||Money Market||Yes||N/A||0.05||N/A||0.21||N/A||-0.1357871||Switzerland||N/A||73950000||LU1481723747||148172374||DT||100|
|SWISSCANTO (LU) MONEY MARKET FUND RESPONSIBLE CHF FT (CHF) ACC||N/A||SWISSCANTO AM INTL (LU)||Money Market||Yes||N/A||0.05||N/A||0.21||N/A||-0.1456674||Switzerland||N/A||252328200||LU0141249424||014124942||FT||0|
|VONTOBEL SWISS MONEY A (CHF) INC||N/A||VONTOBEL AM SA (LU)||Money Market||No||N/A||0.15||N/A||0.23||N/A||-0.1215246||Global||N/A||9656949.07||LU0120694640||012069464||A||0|
|VONTOBEL SWISS MONEY I (CHF) ACC||N/A||VONTOBEL AM SA (LU)||Money Market||Yes||N/A||0.1||N/A||0.24||N/A||-0.0995725||Global||N/A||16835406.76||LU0278086623||027808662||I||0|
The only overlap of these four and the table above is ZKB (LU) (0.11% mgmt fee, 1.56% YTM) LU0141249424 so I am now zooming into this one.
Does YTM mean yield to maturity? I didn’t know this metrics exist for money market fund. and I can only find out this value in factsheet from official website but not on IBKR quote details. Is this number static? How is it related to performance, for example YTD performance? And how to tell ZHK(CH) bears more risk than ZKB(LU)? From their underlyings?
The same fund is often sold in different share classes for different types of investors (private investors, institutions, pension funds). The different classes have a different fee structure. You find details in the prospectus (https://www.swissfunddata.ch is helpful for this, usually lists all documents). In practice, the class for private investors will be relevant for most. I’ve seen LO funds where you can get the fund for institutional investors (with 0.01% less fees) if you invest more than 1M or are a private banking customer of them.
Note that YTD performance is year-to-date (first 4 months only), you have to annualise this. While a money market fund has a very small interest rate risk (because of the low average duration), it is not zero and the fund continually marks all holdings to market, the YTD is a combination of yield payouts and these adjustments.
I personally would study the holdings / philosophy (in what does the fund invest) and fee structure. Then, I would choose the cheapest one among the funds that match my risk profile.
Yes, that’s yield to maturity. The number is dynamic and can change every day because for multiple reasons: The value of the underlyings is dynamic and changes, which influences YTM. Moreover, the fund continually has to buy and sell new underlyings (because they expire, people want their money, new people invest, …), which also influences YTM. It is the annualized yield that you would get if the fund held all underlyings to maturity and would not reinvest the proceedings, which of course never happens for a fund. So it is the best approximation for the yield at any moment in time, but not guaranteed.
Yes, a higher YTM should usually imply a higher risk, but it is best to check the underlyings.
So I went and checked for some of them in the above list. Beware of entry and exit fees. For example LU0120694640 (Vontobel Fund - Swiss Money) has an entry fee of 5.00% and an exit fee of 0.30%. It would take years to even get back to were you were.
If you don’t have multiple millions of net worth, paying around 2.00% for premature termination on a savings account, would probably be cheaper, and give higher returns for comparable availability.
Isn’t that up-to 5%? (it will heavily depend on your bank/broker, with Swiss ones being fairly expensive so that it likely doesn’t make sense for short term holding).
Wow, this is wild. Why doesn’t the national bank give us access to something like T-Bills in the US? At least Swiss residents should be allowed to access them directly, imo.
On a second glance, yes. And there is also some stipulation in their KID about up to 500 CHF entry fee if you exit after 1 year (I don’t get what that’s supposed to mean).
It seems cost isn’t transparent. I didn’t find the actual rates and I can’t read their annual report well enough to calculate it. Not understanding a product is a good reason to keep your hands of.
The annual report in 2022, if someone wants to try:
Thank you so so much for the reply. Regarding this paragraph particularly, I am still quite confused. If the performance 0.2% for four months continues in the rest of the year, the whole year performance is gonna be like 0.6%. This is still very far from number of YTM, like 1.5% - 1.9%. So apparently there is some basic fix-income knowledge I don’t get.
Seeing YTD performance 0.6% and YTM 1.5%, If I invest 100k and expect to exit after a year, should I expect 101.5k or 100.6k? I know in a savings account, I can expect 101.5k. Essentially I am looking for a savings account alternative, hopefully getting similar rates locked for as long as possible (1 year) by doing it myself. Is the thought too naive?
Really depends where I think. On IB it seems to be around 5 CHF flat fee for many funds.
What I don’t get is how a fund-side entry fee can be dependent on the broker. If my money reaches the mutual fund, they need to buy more securities, regardless where it came from. Or is there some broker-side pooling and netting going on?
Because this is how the fund finances the kickback (I mean “retrocession”) to the broker… still legal in CH, less common than before.
Quick, kill it with fire.
Is there any way to calculate the non-kickback rate? Are there jurisdictions where this kind of kickback is illegal?
All in all it seems mutual funds are highly inferior to ETFs.
Go to a broker and get a quote for the units both to buy and sell some, and look at the spread… ultimately that is what matters to you.
At the moment, I just want to know if it’s possible to do so, satisfying my curiosity. Learning some instruments. If the answer is yes, I will then start thinking about when and why and why not to do it