# Changing gender to retire earlier
**URL:** https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782
**Category:** Coffee
**Created:** [January 26, 2022, 7:28am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782 "2022-01-26T07:28:11Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@yetanothername](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/yetanothername)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 7:28am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/1 "2022-01-26T07:28:11Z")
Any of you thought about changing gender to female to retire earlier? One dude did it.
Pretty good investment. For 75 CHF you get one year more of AHV/AVS.
> **[So kommt ein Luzerner mit 75 Franken früher zur AHV-Rente](https://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/zentralschweiz/luzern/geschlechtsaenderung-wie-ein-luzerner-mit-75-franken-ein-jahr-frueher-zur-ahv-rente-kommt-ld.2240198)**
>
> Geschlechtsänderung: Wie ein Luzerner mit 75 Franken ein Jahr früher zur AHV-Rente kommt.
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### Author:  [@pwi](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/pwi)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 7:33am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/2 "2022-01-26T07:33:42Z")
He (well now it’s rather she) is right to do so. That is one more example that this age difference for ordinary AHV/AVS retirement has to disappear.
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### Author:  [@Thaek](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Thaek)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 8:13am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/3 "2022-01-26T08:13:12Z")
You can also use this ideocracy to avoid having to do military service or pay Wehrpflichtersatz.
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### Author:  [@MrCheese](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/MrCheese)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 8:14am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/4 "2022-01-26T08:14:22Z")
And it comes with the entitlement to be mad at everyone that dead names you.
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### Author:  [@Cortana](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Cortana)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 8:17am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/5 "2022-01-26T08:17:32Z")
We should get rid of the gender alltogether. There is no need for it anymore.
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### Author:  [@Cortana](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Cortana)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 8:26am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/7 "2022-01-26T08:26:42Z")
> [@Patron](#):
>
> I think there should be men and women.
From a biological view, yes. Humans that can make babys and those who can’t. But from a legal view? Why shouldn’t we all have the same rights?
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### Author:  [@Cortana](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Cortana)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 10:07am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/9 "2022-01-26T10:07:26Z")
> [@Patron](#):
>
> Are there any other discrepancies?
Men can’t get raped by law.
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### Author:  [@Giff](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Giff)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 10:27am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/11 "2022-01-26T10:27:06Z")
I guess (s)he’ll also have to get a lower salary then 🙂
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### Author:  [@Cortana](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Cortana)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 10:53am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/12 "2022-01-26T10:53:09Z")
I think there is a lot more we don’t know about. Getting rid of genders (from a legal perspective) would be a good solution IMO.
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### Author:  [@Barto](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Barto)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 11:17am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/14 "2022-01-26T11:17:00Z")
Perhaps it’s because getting along in Swiss business necessitates frequenting strip clubs, like you suggested in the other thread 😀
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### Author:  [@Giff](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Giff)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 11:19am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/15 "2022-01-26T11:19:30Z")
> [@Patron](#):
>
> Salary is purely a result of negotiation and has absolutely nothing to do with gender.
Ok, I guess this is another topic where any reasonable discussion with Patron is futile.
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### Author:  [@Cortana](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Cortana)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 11:32am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/17 "2022-01-26T11:32:26Z")
There is no real gender gap in salaries. It’s fabricated, I agree with @Patron
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### Author:  [@Mr\_Zack](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Mr_Zack)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 11:49am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/18 "2022-01-26T11:49:10Z")
Agree. The CEO of my last company, where I was a manager told me the women were bad at negotiating a salary raise. When he asked them, they didn`t say a %, so he gave them a lower amount than what he already had in mind, whereas the men always said e.g. 8%, from where negotiations started.
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### Author:  [@Daniel](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Daniel)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 11:54am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/19 "2022-01-26T11:54:10Z")
It isn’t just retirement which is affected by a gender change (on paper). There are many discrepencies, and in the most extreme cases the differences can up to over 1 million francs in lost or gained income. You can find a good list of them here:
> **[Financial Inequalities Between Women and Men in Switzerland](https://www.moneyland.ch/en/women-men-financial-inequalities-switzerland)**
>
> Get informed about differences in the way women and men are handled in Switzerland with regards to key areas of finance.
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### Author:  [@nabalzbhf](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/nabalzbhf)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 12:10pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/20 "2022-01-26T12:10:09Z")
Honestly I’m rooting for some of the people on this thread to try this “trick”. Would very quickly gain hands on experience on micro-aggression, being misgendered continuously, having people “assume” things based on your appearance or your stated gender, etc.
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### Author:  [@MisterB](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/MisterB)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 12:40pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/21 "2022-01-26T12:40:57Z")
I would just like to make one small observation about something that is often overlooked when discussing normal retirement ages like here, and hopefully my comment leaves aside all considerations of politics, biology, identity, etc.
It is simply that, _statistically_ speaking, (biological) women currently live on average longer than (biological) men. That’s a neutral fact observed throughout most of the world (and I’m not even suggesting that this discrepancy has biological roots, and that it couldn’t disappear over time). This is probably as uncontroversial as saying that smokers have a shorter life expectancy. Ultimately, this means that if men and women have the same normal retirement age under a given pension system, _actuarially_ speaking the pension paid to the woman is expected to cost more on average. So if both get the same pension at the same age and pay the same contribution rate, someone is cross-subsidizing the other (and I’m not even suggesting that a participant cannot openly accept this implicit ‘solidarity’, just pointing it out). I’ll let you figure out whether this means that women should have an earlier retirement age than men or later 😉
Furthermore, to those who believe that normal retirement ages should not be increased anymore, or at all for that matter, I just want to point out that, again, statistically speaking life expectancy has been increasing for decades, and is expected to continue to do so for a little while at least. I’m not suggesting that it’s inconceivable to keep the normal retirement age as it is nevertheless (there’s definitely the issue of _healthy_ life expectancy vs total life expectancy for instance), simply that if we all live longer, and we prefer to keep the same retirement age, someone has to pay for it…
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### Author:  [@Cortana](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Cortana)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 12:48pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/22 "2022-01-26T12:48:15Z")
From that view women should retire at 69-70. But this would only work if the roles were reversed. Imagine if men would live 4-5 years longer on average. They would decide tomorrow that men had to work till 69-70.
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### Author:  [@Daniel](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Daniel)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 2:09pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/23 "2022-01-26T14:09:45Z")
I don’t see much point in discussing whether or not things should be different. Many of these points are political and if they change, that happens very slowly. It is simply good to be aware of the legalities as they exist now, and how they affect your financial life.
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### Author:  [@Wolverine](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Wolverine)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 5:20pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/24 "2022-01-26T17:20:34Z")
> [@Patron](#):
>
> But regarding the AHV age, if I can make it more difficult for the government to make any age increasements for the AHV by presenting women that 1 year, I gladly do so.
Because nothing says “taxation is theft” better than fighting tooth and nail to make sure we can benefit the most from a social program paid for with payroll taxes instead of trying to make it shrink. 😉
> [@Mr\_Zack](#):
>
> When he asked them, they didn`t say a %, so he gave them a lower amount than what he already had in mind, whereas the men always said e.g. 8%, from where negotiations started.
I’m genuinely interested, would his take be that stating a nominal amount (corresponding for example to an 8% increase) result in lesser results or was he mainly stating that women more often don’t take upon themselves to suggest a high raise, assuming negociations would then occur, and either ask for a lower number or let to the employer the luxury to state whatever amount they want (including 0)?
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### Author:  [@trotro](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/trotro)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2022, 5:36pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/changing-gender-to-retire-earlier/7782/27 "2022-01-26T17:36:02Z")
> [@nabalzbhf](#):
>
> Honestly I’m rooting for some of the people on this thread to try this “trick”. Would very quickly gain hands on experience on micro-aggression, being misgendered continuously, having people “assume” things based on your appearance or your stated gender, etc.
I don’t get it. Changing your gender legally will not change a thing about those things? You don’t have to change anything about you appearance to change your legal gender.
Most people gender you according to their perception (e.g.“passing”), so it doesn’t matter at all how you’re registered.
Obviously this might be a bad thing to do from the perspective of trans individuals (haven’t thought deeply about it).
It’s also going to be really awkward to tell your employer (if you have to, which I don’t know – I never provided my gender for previous employments). And the employer might also look down on you for taking advantage of a legal loophole.
Many reasons not to do it. Don’t yet see a reason why “increased discrimination” would be one of them.
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