Buy-back Finpension vested benefits before leaving CH

I know the 3-year hold applies to withdrawals of voluntary assets. But this is the first time I have heard of it in relation to leaving the country (assuming the vested benefits were not withdrawn). Very possibly, the cases in question involved trying to withdraw voluntary benefits.

When you make coluntary contributions, there is a 3-year hold from the time they are made before you can withdraw them.

AFAIK this should not be an issue if you choose to leave pillar 2b benefits vested.

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Thank you both @Caribou for flagging up the tax payback and @Daniel for adding in. I’m not intending to withdraw my buyback amount soon at least within the locking 3 years period but yes, I will check with my tax advisor to see if it’s worthwhile to buyback this year.

Not sure if you read french…very interesting! I called the Geneva team, but the person in charge will be back monday. I will ask her the question, as I’m Canadian and might also leave (I do buybacks for many years now).

https://entscheidsuche.ch/kantone/ne_trican/NE-trican-CDP-2013-130-931.html

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Thank you very much for the useful link. Obviously this was an extreme case, with 5-digit annual tax deductions, which by my logic means she was making voluntary contributions in the range of 100k per year (at the bare minimum).

From what I can find in various cantonal laws, making voluntary contributions ahead of leaving Switzerland is acceptable, within reason. But as with all voluntary pillar 2 contributions, the tax office has the right to audit each case individually, and to reject dedutions is they feel you are misusing the second pillar to avoid/evade taxes rather than to improve your pension (i.e. the tax savings are higher than the pension increase).

Still, it certainly does raise a concern. It seems anyone looking to make any major voluntary contributions should do that well ahead of a possible move abroad.

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Interesting point: The 3 years is not set in stone (Deepl translation):

“Article 79b BVG introduces a time limit to simplify the assessment of cases occurring within a certain period (three years), but it does not exclude the existence of an evaded tax for any construction involving a redemption and a capital withdrawal after the expiry of this three-year period.”

Agree. I did not read in detail but the argument is that she was notified of termination of employment in December. She then made a large buy back in March saving 69k tax and left the country in April. Presumably there was a large separation package she was trying to avoid taxes on. It sounds like she might have then withdrawn the money in France too, but not really clear

this is fantastic, I’m based in Geneva too :stuck_out_tongue: but my French is zero, let me know when you know more. I sent the question to my tax advisor but they are OOO today too.

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And even with something so obviously borderline (I assume she managed to most of her income tax for the year, while on fairly high income), she still won the appeal. Anyone knows if the tax authorities pursued it after? (since it was sent back to see if they had better arguments)

Also another great exemple…too me it’s obvious on this one, but when you read the story…Wow! They had to go to Federal Court after so many decision from other Court following their decision that the buyout was once accepted then not accepted…I really can say now that it depends on the person/department that deals with your taxe declaration.

https://www.bger.ch/ext/eurospider/live/de/php/aza/http/index.php?highlight_docid=aza%3A%2F%2F13-04-2006-2A-705-2005&lang=de&type=show_document&zoom=YES&

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Just got a call with the Geneva tax office. They told me that ideally if you were taxed in the Geneva Canton before leaving and that you would transfer your second pilar in a vested benefits account in Geneva, it will be easier for them to approve the 3 previous years buyback (if the account is in another Canton it would be much harder for them…don’t know what it meant as I had no explication from them on the meaning of ‘‘Much Harder’’), BUT you need a proof that you will not withdraw the amount before 3 years…I asked them how we can do that??? She replied to me you need to ask the vested benefits account manager/company…Maybe you can sign some kind of agreement with them? Gray Zone…to me!

If someone as info on this I would be more than interested!!!

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The authorities did not seem to give a lot of weight to that argument in the first case linked above so I would not rely on this

As I understand it, the objective of buy-back has to be to provide pension provision in Switzerland, not to save taxes

@xanthorhoea case looks risky in this light. Devil’s advocate, why would he/ she top up assets in the employer’s PF now after the decision to leave employer, pension fund and Switzerland has already been taken if it is not to save tax? If the objective was to provide pension it would appear to have made more sense to have made the buy back earlier, or otherwise when he/ she returns to CH in the future

Thank you @Caribou for kindly taking the time to share cases and bring more clarification and awareness to the risk.

@Barto I like your devil’s advocate. Since my intention with the vested benefits are to leave the assets in CH long-term with a possibility to transfer back to a pension funds if I return to CH for work, so in a way, I still stay true the objective of buy back to ensure my pension provision in Switzerland. Even if I don’t return, I don’t mind leaving my vested benefits account in CH until my retirement. Why I didn’t make the buy-back earlier because it makes little sense to deposit money in for very low return. Now, if I buy back and have it sit in a vested benefits account which can be invested and generates higher return, it makes more sense to me.

To be honest, it still puzzles me what can be wrong about making a compliant buy back (mean I do it while I’m in CH, leave it for 3 years as required, receive tax deduction for my 2022 tax period as Swiss tax resident which is almost a full year 10/12 months). This is not to argue with anyone and I’m super thankful to caribou for sharing the 2 cases and highlighting the risk of facing a whistle blown by the authority :face_exhaling:

FWIW, I don’t think you risk much in any case. If they’re not happy there won’t be any penalties, you’ll just get the money back and pay the extra tax due.

There you are, a very optimistic and go-with-the-flow attitude :star_struck:
btw a dude I am not haha

I wonder if it would be straightforward to get the money back out of the pension fund in this scenario?

In any case I agree for 30k the downside risk is not huge and it might not even register on the authorities’ radar screen

It should you’ll have a paper from the tax office telling you to :smile:

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