These are fair points. I guess I was looking at computer games as one example of an ‘unproductive’ activity that you could do during retirement. But my fear is that my whole day would be taken up with multiple different such unproductive activities.
Now, there’s nothing wrong in that, in and of itself. I think what worries me is that lack of meaning. I’m struggling to understand what meaningful activity I could do. Maybe I’m being too critical of myself, but a lot of the activities I do are nice hobbies, they keep me entertained, maybe even challenged and sometimes enable me to learn stuff, but now as I grow older, I look upon them more critically and see them more as self-indulgent hobbies.
Unfortunately, I think this is just the way I’m wired and I need to figure this out otherwise I’ll end up unfulfilled.
To root myself during periods where I have to build my own framework because none is imposed on me, I like to consider volunteering, either for a local society (Football club, marching band, activities for children, care for the elderlies,…) or a cause that I deeply value. Being active in politics could play that role too.
It maintains social contact, some kind of schedule on some days that I can build upon and is aligned with my values and what I like.
I think, in the end there is nothing truly meaningful in what an individual blob of cells does in this inconceivably huge universe. Or maybe we are just to dumb to see the deeper truth. Maybe there is even a benefit from that. Would a worm benefit from being able to think about investing in the stock market? Or would it better spend it’s time doing worm-things?
But systems and entities having reduced fitness by the underlying lack of meaning will be replaced by others. Suffering from its absence, and being motivated to do something about it, could be fitness enhancing, though (true for suffering in general).
We work quite well by accepting meaning from outside. Children need a parent that raises them. Religions tell you what to do (and have their absolutist haven/hell equivalents waiting for you). Societies force/nudge you to contribute. Your basic needs need to be met. Evolution demands(/results in?) survival and expansion.
These things exist. Although we think some demands more justified than others, some demands more enforceable than others. But they likely have meaning to what or who makes them. It makes a difference (at the very least in that moment in this place).
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to revisit this topic.
For practical advice: Go out there and make a difference. Spending all time for winning computer games and only mildly enjoying it whilst taking nothing from it makes few difference. This is relative to what could be done instead. And it is felt like that.
Make a difference in the reality of others. So, maybe:
This does of course not address our living conditions for which we did not evolve (thanks for the video @dom.swiss). Maladaptive patterns do present a challenge to agency.
For me there’s two times in a day: #1 productivity #2 disconnection
Videogames fall in #2. Whenever I do too much of any, I feel my wellbeing decline.
So I’ve realized that although I idealize achievement through productivity, I actually NEED something that goes right against that. As with everything in life, if there’s no balance and you’re high on one extreme end, the other end of the seesaw will decline naturally.
Now the thing I am struggling with is to actually keep the balance. It’s so hard for me to switch mindset between #1 and #2 that I am prone to overdo either… it requires a mountain of discipline not to fall into videogaming all day, or be so productive that I can’t disconnect at all at the end of the day.
Same. While videogames are designed to capture our attention and not let it go, one other reason that could reinforce it is hyperfocus. It comes with ADHD and/or autism, at least. Not saying anybody has it but that’s a path I’ve been exploring lately and it’s been fruitful. ADHD, in particular, is not that rare, especially in the male population, and hyperactivity isn’t the only variation that it comes with (mine is impulsive rather than hyperactive, for example, I’ve a friend for whom inattention is the qualifying trait).
I would not take action without a diagnosis if I suspected I’ve got it/them. Also, they may come bundled with other things and I would seek a comprehensive diagnosis rather than just a targeted one on a single neurodivergence.
Edit: by the way, one trait of ADHD would be a low base level of dopamine. Dom.swiss’ video (which I haven’t watched yet, it’s a bit lenghty) probably applies doubly for people affected with it.
I think play is rewarded by our brains because it motivates us to learn while having fun. But you need to be mindful of what games you play.
When I was a kid, or even in my 20s, downloading and trying out PC games was filling out most of my free time (along with downloading movies, TV series and apps; basically I was addicted to downloading). I think I at least partially owe my career to gaming. That’s because I was racing an F1-like game online with a small community of 10-20 people, and we used to post results on forum, which all looked shabby, so I learned PHP & SQL to build a website & database for storing and browsing our results. This skill then allowed me to succeed in my next job, and it snowballed from there.
But when I moved to Switzerland I decided not to bring my PC with me. I wanted to free up time for other activities and also not to spend so much time in front of the PC, because after 8-9h of work, my eyes and neck were getting really exhausted. I started going out more, travel more, I found a girlfriend. So yes, it impacted me for sure. But I definitely stopped being as creative and stopped developing my IT skills as much. I still had the need for casual play, so I switched to mobile games. Eg some years ago I got hooked on playing chess and then filled every free moment playing thousands of chess games and getting really good at it.
But then I realized that playing chess online does not benefit me. It does not relax me (blitz chess stresses you out a lot) and I don’t learn anything apart from chess. So I cut down on chess.
Btw I was always a sucker for city building games and simulations, and I was watching a lot of city building content on YouTube, so this winter, when the weather was crap, when it was dark outside and nothing to do, I bought Cities Skylines II on steam (60 CHF), and I paid for GeForce NOW premium (20 CHF/month). I played 50 hours in 2 months on a 4K screen attached to my MacBook, and I really recommend this setup. It worked flawlessly most of the time. In fact, I think it’s the cheaper option for casual gaming. No expensive PC rig that occupies space in our flat. But yeah, I satisfied my need, I have gotten proof that my city building skills are shit compared to the youtubers, and that I do not intend to spend countless hours downloading mods and honing my skills to try to match them. Feels like too much work. But still it was fun.
These are fair points, I agree completely. The way I see it is that playing video games diverts my attention enough that it makes productive time more productive, in fact. When playing I’m also doing some background thinking, similar to when going to the gym.
This makes sense and there’s a balance to be struck. I think this is an important element for FIRE as when you stop working, you lose your job which provides much if #1 and you read many stories of people struggling with retirement due to this (my father also, who actually went back to work after 1 year of retirement).
I think there are a class of activities which fall into both camps - at least for me: exercise/sport is one. After playing sport, or swimming, I feel both that I did something productive for my health and also disconnected (enjoyed being in a flow state).
I suggest you all to google “PTSD Tetris” to read about the benefits of playing tetris. Apparently some doctors suggest to play tetris to war veterans. Imagine you can play a game instead of meditating or stuff like that.
Similar situation here, except my 6 y.o. is not terribly interested in games, more youtube-binge-watching of fave cartoons.
Regardless I took your idea, and re-activated my first “computer game” or electronic entertainment. Still works like new after more than 40 years - I’m impressed, Nintendo! Try that with the stuff they sell you today!!
By reading and partipating to this forum, you confirm you have read and agree with the disclaimer presented on http://www.mustachianpost.com/
En lisant et participant à ce forum, tu confirmes avoir lu et être d'accord avec l'avis de dégagement de responsabilité présenté sur http://www.mustachianpost.com/fr/
Durch das Lesen und die Teilnahme an diesem Forum bestätigst du, dass du den auf http://www.mustachianpost.com/de/ dargestellten Haftungsausschluss gelesen hast und damit einverstanden bist.
