Anyone using findependent? (Swiss robo advisor)

I’ve tested Selma Finance, it was a good experience. However, you can’t chose a strategy or the ETF you want to invest in.

There is also Avadis, but they are more expensive with their 100% equity solution: 0.63%.

Next to the FTSE All-World it says „Maximalgewicht 100%“. Einfach eigene Anlagelösung erstellen - findependent

The limit can be seen for every other ETF on the list as well.

IMO it looks like a decent set-and-forget option on top of a 3a account.


Ah I was not aware of those columns. thanks for pointing out!

If it doesn’t have to be a Swiss bank, Trading 212 could make sense. Lots of ETFs without commission and without custody fees (not in CHF, though). Auto-invest is possible even with multiple ETFs, e.g. to invest 90% in Vanguard Developed World and 10% in Vanguard EM for an average TER of 0.13% p.a. The only fees would be 0.15% currency exchange, as far as I can tell. I’m not using it myself, though, so I might be missing something. And they lend out your securities to finance the zero commission trades. I also don’t know whether they have a CH IBAN for wire transfers.

As the SIX-Version of the FTSE All-World is distributing, I asked myself what’s going to happen once the distribution hits the account. So I asked findependent.

They get automatically reinvested, once the amount is high enough (I believe it’s 100 CHF). If you time your regular investment right after the distributing-day, everything gets invested altogether.

Now since the All-World distributes in USD, you will have to pay exchange fee on the distribution part of the reinvestment, right?
Answer: NO !!
Findependent waives the charging of exchange fees in that case. IMO that’s super nice for the casual investor.
So since the All-World is in CHF, you won’t have to pay currency conversion fees at all. :slight_smile:
Obviously stamp duty (0.15% for foreign ETFs) is due.

This sounds good but that saves only about 0.01% p.a. (2% x 0.5%), compared to the total fees of 0.44% p.a.

Dang, you are right. I haven’t even done the calculation.
Just seemed too nice. :grimacing:

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Has anyone tried it?

Thinking about switching my GF from IBKR to this. It would be much easier for her as I constantly need to help her with investing.

Will probably choose their solution for my sister as I like the idea, their product and the people behind it a lot.

I’ve done a little calculation on how much the fee would be compared to yuh, Swissquote and IBKR. I used 4% interest and 2k investment per month as an example.
You can draw your own conclusion. :slight_smile:

EDIT: One thing that’s interesting is that according to this video they plan to launch a fee scale this year (video in Swiss German), meaning that the fee should become cheaper for higher amounts.


BTW: Is the IBKR: Recurring Investments available! - Investing / Brokers - Mustachian Post Community not an option for your GF?

No as her monthly investments vary.

I have checked out their solution a few months ago, but decided against it. One reason was the FX markup of 0.5% which is IMO ridiculous compared to IB or other Swiss robo advisors (just VIAC is also at 0.5%, others are way lower: Finpension 0 (because they trade everything in CHF), True Wealth 0.1%, Selma 0.25% just to mention a few others).

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As you can see from my chart, it makes almost no difference if a one-off fee is paid at the time of the transaction. :wink:

There are also good options in CHF like the FTSE All-World ETF.

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Your chart is very nice! Thanks for sharing. What tool have you used for creating it? I would like to play around with it with other provides, also in the 3a area.

For Findependent, you have not added the FX markup in the chart, right?

There are also good options in CHF like the FTSE All-World ETF.

That one is available with Findependent? Do you have the ISIN at hand?

That is Excel, I can send it to you.

Correct, I calculated with a CHF-solution, which is what I would do if I invested there.

All of the available ETFs can be found here: Create your own investment solution - findependent

Two caveats for your yuh calculation:

  • As yuh doesn’t allow transferring securities, there is no way around paying the 0.5% + 0.15% a second time when eventually selling the fund (unless conditions change). Currency exchange at yuh can potentially be avoided as you can transfer foreign currency out of yuh.
  • The fund offering at yuh is terribly limited, especially in CHF where the only world ETF is IWDC with a 0.55% TER and forced currency hedging.
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That’s absolutely something to keep in mind. At SQ at least it’s “only” the 0.15%.

Very true. Hopefully more ETFs will be added over time.
If I had to do it with yuh, I’d go with the All-World High Dividend or the MSCI World Minimum Volatility in CHF.

Ok, so i finally opened an account to check how it’s going, and wired a few hundred CHF.

It works as intended so far. Here some observations:

The app transparently says “max 0.5% markup on FX”. my so far two data points tell me about 0.2 and 0.35% compared to rates at, however that is within a day’s volatility so to be fair I’d have to wait for several more transactions to compile an average value.

there seems to be a fraction of 2% liquidity that you cant get rid of. so de facto 98% stocks in that portfolio.

the statement comes ony as PDF, nerds like me of course prefer csv, but hey. On the other hand it’s really detailed, which I commend.

Due to findependent acting on swiss intermediary, stamp tax applies. Which is nicely presented in the report, together with very small exchange fees. Together they amount for 0.14% of my initial deposit/ investment.

If anyone would like a referral code, pm me please :slight_smile: each referral is worth CHF 4.4 p.a. for life against the all-in fee of 0.44%.

All else it works identically to Viac or finpension, simply outside of 3a


Thanks for describing your experience.

Small clarification, the exchange is irrelevant. The stamp duty tax applies to all Swiss financial intermediaries (brokers, wealth managers), independent of what stock exchange is used.


Oops, here my non-experience of swiss intermediaries shines brightly :smiley: I just corrected this above