A new low commission 3A/3rd pillar ETF solution from VIAC


#181

Have you created multiple 3a accounts? Or you plan to put the 6768 CHF equity on one account? For the mustachians who opened multiple account at VIAC for future tax optimization, do you keep the portfolio split constant?


#182

if you intend to make use of the 6768CHF in the coming years, then just open 5 account (takes you 2 additional minutes max!) straight away, set up 5 monthly payments of 1/5th each and thus be tax-optimized and flexible for using some of the accounts for real estate purchases. absolutely no reason to not do it.
=> you probably want to have roughly equal amounts in each account at withdrawl


#183

what is the reasoning behind swiss real estate?

Edit:
did you copy paste the strategy above?


#184

no hard reasoning. i could mention diversification.

the main point of the portfolio is 30% world, 20% world small, 10% EM and rest swiss, i.e. an approximation of the world portfolio within the regulatory boundaries

it’s close to what i had with VZ before, otherwise, no.


#185

A bit confused. You used a different split in the other ones or you just have one pillar 3a? Even if you dont plan to use the 6768 CHF in the coming years it would make sense to have several ones no (tax reason) no?

Just would like to use your view. I am thinking to use a similar approach such as @glina on the DeGiro account hence:
->70% VWRL Allworld
-> 20% Small cap
-> 10% Gold

In my opinion if I want to be somewhat consistent, I would chose for the 3a
-> 35% SMIM + 2% SMI
->30% AW
->20% Small cap
-> 10% Gold
-> 3% cash
-> Rest in equity somewhere else

Would that make any sense?


#186

im also fully confused by your questions, maybe start from the very beginning and make references explicit^^
I have two accounts with VZ with tiny amounts in there, and both are moving to VIAC

from tax reasons it always makes sense to split up in 5 (the max). there is a tax plot in my 3a tutorial visualizing this. You can not however split existing accounts. so just make 5 from the start.

that is a fully legit well diversified portfolio. you can argue about the golld position in a long term portfolio, unless you want to do something with the funds “soon”.


#187

not really unless maybe you indend to retire in switzerland. withdrawals within same year are taxed together so if you withdraw when moving abroad this doesn’t help you save any money. withdrawing early also won’t work to save you anything - you can only withdraw once every five years


#188

Can’t you withdraw every time you buy a property or pay back a mortgage on a property?


#189

With 3a, do you really have to withdraw everything when going abroad? If the country of destination is well chosen, then there should of course be no tax consequences, no matter the amount. Otherwise, a staggered termination (one account each year) would probably make sense? What’s your take here?


#190

Gold is expensive within the VIAC 3a solution IMO. More expensive than in a metal acct at a bank or via a Gold ETF by itself. And no tax savings advantage on dividend earnings, since no dividends. I wud mix my gold into the portfolio outside of 3a.


#191

In my view, the expected (but nor guaranteed) returns depend more on your choice within each 3a portfolio than on the number of portfolios. Correct me should I have misunderstood you.

My statement was, it’s true, based on ~100% equity, due to the timeframe the money is usually bound within 3a accounts.


#192

only once every five years no matter how many accounts you have


#193

no

it needs to be really well chosen then so that you won’t just have to pay income taxes in your new country on the whole withdrawal


#194

good point, didnt consider that! makes sense imho


#195

Thats exactly what I will do @maillekeule :smiley:


#196

you mean once a year during the 5 years before your retirement.


#197

Mustachians: correct me if i am wrong but lets assume you have 5 accounts with a similar split of shares inside. If you withdraw once every year during 5 years, you save on tax.
But is the tax saving more interesting than mustachian b, who kept only one account at 5% per year (assumption- no market crash :slight_smile: ). during the last 5 years?


#198

for house ownership etc. once every 5 years is the limit. Husband and wife have separate terms (so it’s even once every 2.5 years for them)


#199

What about married couples before retirement, can each of them take the money on their pillar every year without additions in tax?


#200

3a withdrawals are taxed separately (edit: from the rest of your income) and those of spouses happening in the same year are added together. Same with 2nd pillar pay-outs (edit: both in regard to other 2nd pillar pay-outs as with 3a payouts - provided they happen in the same year).

Edit: the relevant moment for 2nd pillar taxation is (in nearly all cantons) when the pay-out is due, not when you actually get it.

Edit: @maillekeule, please fork the thread, we are getting herea bit too much off topic