# 3a solution from Finpension
**URL:** https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522
**Category:** Banks, Insurances & Third Pillar
**Created:** [October 8, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522 "2020-10-08T14:00:27Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@anon95353169](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/anon95353169)
#### Post date: [October 15, 2020, 2:12pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/48 "2020-10-15T14:12:46Z")
No, there is no VAT on product costs. The VAT only applies on the 0.39% from Finpension, which gives 0.42%. So, you add the product costs on top of the 0.42%.
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### Author:  [@rolandinho](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/rolandinho)
#### Post date: [October 15, 2020, 2:50pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/49 "2020-10-15T14:50:58Z")
> [@skyw4lker](#):
>
> Which VAT-rate applies?
7.7%
The reduced rates for “vital goods” (food, medicine) doesn’t apply to banking services 😉
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### Author:  [@Cortana](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Cortana)
#### Post date: [October 15, 2020, 2:54pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/50 "2020-10-15T14:54:56Z")
Isn’t Viac (WIR Vorsorgestiftung) in Basel?
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### Author:  [@TrickMcDave](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/TrickMcDave)
#### Post date: [October 15, 2020, 7:36pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/51 "2020-10-15T19:36:16Z")
In my opinion it doesn’t matter where the foundation is domiciled, it matters where you as “cashing out”-resident live. I meant to read that AI or AR are cheapest cantons to live in when withdrawing your pension funds.
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### Author:  [@HoiZame](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/HoiZame)
#### Post date: [October 15, 2020, 10:04pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/52 "2020-10-15T22:04:08Z")
I confirm that it’s where you live on December 31st of the year when you withdraw the funds that impacts the taxation and not the domicile of the pension fund ^^.
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### Author:  [@San\_Francisco](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/San_Francisco)
#### Post date: [October 15, 2020, 10:31pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/53 "2020-10-15T22:31:43Z")
> [@TrickMcDave](#):
>
> In my opinion it doesn’t matter where the foundation is domiciled, it matters where you as “cashing out”-resident live.
Domicile of pension fund/foundation will effect effective tax rate
- when residing outside of Switzerland AND
- being ineligible for a refund of withholding tax.
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### Author:  [@kilyn](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/kilyn)
#### Post date: [October 15, 2020, 11:33pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/54 "2020-10-15T23:33:37Z")
> [@TrickMcDave](#):
>
> In my opinion it doesn’t matter where the foundation is domiciled, it matters where you as “cashing out”-resident live.
there wouldn’t be a cottage industry of schwyz pension funds specializing in tax evasion/optimization for emigrating expats if that were true. but that cottage industry does exist, so…
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### Author:  [@San\_Francisco](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/San_Francisco)
#### Post date: [October 16, 2020, 1:27am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/55 "2020-10-16T01:27:55Z")
I have seen a foundation that is _domiciled_ at a „c/o“ address of an individual. When you look the address up on Google Street View, it‘s nothing more than a small residential block of flats somewhere in canton Schwyz.
Whereas valuepension has at least found „home“ at their (?) accounts…
That said, I‘m wondering how many people do transfer their benefits to Schwyz and pay the hundreds of CHF privilege to cash them out from there - even though the withholding tax would be only provisional for them (in other words, depending on their own tax residency, be irrelevant in the end).
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### Author:  [@Daniel](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Daniel)
#### Post date: [October 16, 2020, 1:46pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/56 "2020-10-16T13:46:01Z")
Hi Cortana, you are right. Please excuse the mistake. I mixed it up with another service provider. But Basel is even worse than Zurich for withholding tax (10.3% in Basel compared to 8.3% in Zurich and 4.8% in Schwyz).
In case anyone’s interested, I found this interactive map on Swissinfo which clearly shows which Swiss withholding taxes (pillar 2 or pillar 3a) you can reclaim depending on which country you move to:
> **[Auswandern und Pensionskasse: So spart man Steuern](https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/wirtschaft/auslandschweizer_auswandern-und-pensionskasse--so-spart-man-dabei-steuern/43670970)**
>
> Beim Bezug des Pensionskassenkapitals werden Steuern fällig. Auslandschweizer können unter Umständen einen Teil zurückfordern.
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### Author:  [@kilyn](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/kilyn)
#### Post date: [October 16, 2020, 2:07pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/57 "2020-10-16T14:07:29Z")
> [@Daniel](#):
>
> In case anyone’s interested, I found this interactive map on Swissinfo which clearly shows which Swiss withholding taxes (pillar 2 or pillar 3a) you can reclaim depending on which country you move to:
Would be also interesting to know which countries don’t tax the payout at the same time
Ideally you both get to reclaim swiss taxes AND don’t pay any tax to the new country, I’ve heard this is possible in Thailand, maybe Malta (assuming you don’t remit cash to the island). Any other interesting destinations?
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### Author:  [@Daniel](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Daniel)
#### Post date: [October 16, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/58 "2020-10-16T15:47:19Z")
I know Portugal has a pension-friendly tax regime, but I haven’t been able to find exact information on how that applies to pension benefits (ahead of retirement).
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### Author:  [@rolandinho](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/rolandinho)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/59 "2020-10-21T18:45:42Z")
> [@wapiti](#):
>
> Finpension VS Viac
> Advantages:
>
> - No currency exchange fees
> - Lower fees with high % of stocks: 0.39% + VAT
> - No currency limit
> - No foreign exposure limit
> - More choice of sustainable funds
> - 99% of the money is invested (vs 97% for VIAC)
>
> Disadvantages:
>
> - No web interface
> - No referral program
> - Mobile app less user friendly
>
> With lower fees and no currency exchange fees, this solution is better than VIAC.
I hadn’t paid in my 3a for 2020 yet & thought I’d check Finpension out.
It’s a great app (I actually prefer it over the Viac one) & the product suits my tastes for 3a a lot.
Checked the website for the product fact sheets. All good.
Opened my account & made the transfer. **(Simple!)**
Love the freedom to choose even one ETF only and not have to combine, thereby avoiding IMO unnecessary re-balancing. I chose 99% SPI Extra, as I want some additional exposure to these kind of companies in my “total portfolio”.
-0.1% Fees & 99% instead of 97% invested aren’t going to make me move my exisiting 3a’s from Viac any time real soon (wait n see if/how Viac reacts, wait n see if Finpension has any “hidden” surprises of its own), but I will definitely be using Finpension for my “new deposits” from now on.
👍🏻 👍🏻 👍🏻
Edit: **not** “SPI Extra”, but “CSIF (CH) Equity Switz Small & Midcap ZB”
Edit again: “SPI Extra” which is called “CSIF (CH) Equity Switz Small & Midcap ZB”
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### Author:  [@omoyano](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/omoyano)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2020, 10:15am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/61 "2020-10-23T10:15:21Z")
it is interesting.
I am with viac but perhaps it is a good option to open an account in Finpension. When I do not live in Switzerland (retirement)I will pay less taxes to withdraw my 3rd pilier, right? or the detour to Schwyz may not even be necessary if there is a double taxation treaty in my country of residence?
Does anyone know how much it costs to pass your 3 piliar from viac to Finpension?
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### Author:  [@Samse](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Samse)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2020, 10:18am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/62 "2020-10-23T10:18:49Z")
As far as I know the transfer from viac costs nothing.
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### Author:  [@anon95353169](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/anon95353169)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2020, 12:10pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/63 "2020-10-23T12:10:22Z")
There are no fees directly. However, several of the CS funds have redemption fees that will be triggered when the shares are sold. On top of that, there is the opportunity cost of not being in the stock market for at least one month.
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### Author:  [@ICantSurf](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/ICantSurf)
#### Post date: [October 24, 2020, 6:18am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/64 "2020-10-24T06:18:03Z")
**It’s my first post ever, so welcome everybody! Thanks to the community for a lot of valuable information.**
I’m considering starting 3a deposits into Finpension while keeping my older 3a account at the same time (which I assume is possible).
Question about one of the funds that Finpension (effectively CS) offers: [Equity World ex CH Quality](https://amfunds.credit-suisse.com/ch/en/institutional/assets/document?documentId=ahX%2Bf7TuiJoYxuVFPrOYOw%3D%3D&filename=CH0253609249_fact-sheet_en_30-09-2020.pdf)
_targeting stocks with historically high return on equity, stable year-on-year growth, and a low leverage ratio_
Seems comparable with some of the momentum factor ETFs (?). So far, fund has been generating returns above the standard MSCI World ex Switzerland index. Despite higher TER, it seems like an interesting option. What do you think?
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### Author:  [@San\_Francisco](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/San_Francisco)
#### Post date: [October 24, 2020, 9:29am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/65 "2020-10-24T09:29:11Z")
> [@omoyano](#):
>
> When I do not live in Switzerland (retirement)I will pay less taxes to withdraw my 3rd pilier, right?
It depends on whether withholding tax is refundable or not.
> [@omoyano](#):
>
> or the detour to Schwyz may not even be necessary if there is a double taxation treaty in my country of residence?
Countries can have a double taxation treaty but nevertheless _not_ allow refund of withholding tax.
> [@ICantSurf](#):
>
> Seems comparable with some of the momentum factor ETFs (?)
Rather to _Quality_ factor ETFs, I’d say.
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### Author:  [@SwissDan](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/SwissDan)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2020, 10:17am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/66 "2020-10-26T10:17:16Z")
hi Roland,
Excuse me for asking, but where did you find the SPI Extra ETF? On their webpage, I only see a weird “SPI Multi Premia Blue”… [https://finpension.ch/en/3a/strategies/index-tools/](https://finpension.ch/en/3a/strategies/index-tools/)
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### Author:  [@Myfirstme](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Myfirstme)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2020, 11:20am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/68 "2020-10-26T11:20:01Z")
What confuses me about the funds on offer, some are offered as two variant, one with a H in the name and the other without. Such as these two:
CSIF (CH) III Equity World ex CH Blue - Pension Fund ZB CH0130458182 [Factsheet](https://amfunds.credit-suisse.com/ch/de/institutional/assets/document?documentId=HuTyVwFG83SvxHKu2YDmfw%3D%3D&filename=CH0130458182_fact-sheet_de_30-09-2020.pdf)
CSIF (CH) III Equity World ex CH Blue - Pension Fund ZBH CH0217837381 [Factsheet](https://amfunds.credit-suisse.com/ch/de/institutional/assets/document?documentId=%2FLu4WN1%2B%2FYQdiErmaXFySg%3D%3D&filename=CH0217837381_fact-sheet_de_30-09-2020.pdf)
They look identical from the factsheets to me. What is the difference?
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### Author:  [@Myfirstme](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Myfirstme)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2020, 11:47am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/70 "2020-10-26T11:47:13Z")
Ha, surprisingly easy answer. Thanks!
I am a bit surprised that they seem to be identical from a cost basis.
And I discovered now that both have a spread when buying and selling (0.08% / 0.03%), but I guess these are covered by Finpensions all in fee.
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