# 3a solution from Finpension
**URL:** https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522
**Category:** Banks, Insurances & Third Pillar
**Created:** [October 8, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522 "2020-10-08T14:00:27Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 18
### Author:  [@Barto](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Barto)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/393 "2022-01-24T19:54:49Z")
> [@user137](#):
>
> We need further data to see if this truth is any beneficial in practice.
>
> The higher TER might actually eat all your “benefits” away.
Not clear if this is your question but TER of « MSCI world quality excluding Switzerland » fund in Finpension is 0.13% which would not eat the historical difference in performance
(Chart for ex Switzerland will not be much different)
---
### Author:  [@San\_Francisco](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/San_Francisco)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/394 "2022-01-24T20:07:37Z")
What they, somewhat “conveniently” don’t tell you in that chart is MSCI was the [worst performing factor](https://www.msci.com/documents/1296102/8473352/Quality-brochure.pdf) in the immediately preceding years 😅
For me, that’s okay though, since overperformance has also been determined for longer periods, and volatility and risk aren’t as elevated as on other factors.
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### Author:  [@betterlatethannever](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/betterlatethannever)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2022, 1:53pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/395 "2022-01-25T13:53:22Z")
Finpension has been praised a lot for it’s low TER and products but I’ve got some concerns. All those funds are managed by CS and they obviously don’t have a good public image these days. While all those assets are protected but I think there is a minor risk ~2% and those funds could eventually get transferred to some other bank for management.
Any opinions about other potential risks that could be a hassle in the future?
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### Author:  [@jay](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/jay)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2022, 2:09pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/396 "2022-01-25T14:09:15Z")
> [@betterlatethannever](#):
>
> While all those assets are protected but I think there is a minor risk ~2% and those funds could eventually get transferred to some other bank for management.
While it’s not completely impossible that management of these funds will be spun out or bought off Credit Suisse, even then I wouldn’t expect major changes from the customer perspective. These index funds are managing tens of billions of Swiss Francs. Longer term it’s possible some index funds get closed but I consider the risk very low for the major ones.
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### Author:  [@San\_Francisco](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/San_Francisco)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2022, 4:22pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/398 "2022-01-25T16:22:06Z")
Credit Suisse is not fly-by-night operation. I absolut fail to see the problem of them moving these funds to another bank for management.
Credit Suisse would be the least of my concerns.
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### Author:  [@Barto](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Barto)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2022, 4:31pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/399 "2022-01-25T16:31:07Z")
With recent losses and change of management I would be concerned as a CS shareholder
Less so as a customer of one of their products tracking an index
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### Author:  [@Cortana](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Cortana)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/400 "2022-01-25T16:34:17Z")
Their asset management will be bought by UBS in the near future. Just my guess.
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### Author:  [@rolandinho](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/rolandinho)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2022, 6:38pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/401 "2022-01-25T18:38:46Z")
> [@Patron](#):
>
> Capitalist bashing is quite common and the media picks up every tiny little detail
Because some media headlines/bashing may affect the stock price in the short-term, look at a 10 or 15 year stock price trend.to see how this company is doing “lately”. Compare to peers to see just how badly they are doing.
Media may exaggerate, but the market is always right over the long term, and here the verdict is clear - this is a toxic company.
An ex-customer and an ex-stockholder.
_ **One** _ of the (many) reasons:
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### Author:  [@REandSTOCK](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/REandSTOCK)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/403 "2022-01-25T19:15:01Z")
> [@Patron](#):
>
> he made the mistake and let himself get caught. He was just unlucky
I’m pretty sure it was an escape plan
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### Author:  [@rolandinho](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/rolandinho)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/404 "2022-01-25T19:22:36Z")
> [@Patron](#):
>
> I like them.
Of course you do, their (ex-)CEO was the Djokovic of bank managers and internal risk/controls were fine with it.
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### Author:  [@rolandinho](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/rolandinho)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2022, 7:26pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/405 "2022-01-25T19:26:13Z")
> [@Patron](#):
>
> Same story with Vincenz who is currently being burnt at the stake. But do you think going to strip clubs on corporate costs
this is the story the media blows up = approx. 500k in “damage” to Raiffeisen.
the heavier charges are for insider trading and selling Raiffeisen his own companies, and this is what got him arrested = 10s of millions embezzled.
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### Author:  [@Barto](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Barto)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2022, 8:49pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/406 "2022-01-25T20:49:08Z")
> [@Patron](#):
>
> But do you think going to strip clubs on corporate costs with customers and prospects is something irregular in banking or the corporate world in general?
Yes. I am pretty sure that CS and Raiffeisen have travel and expense policies that do not allow reimbursement of strip clubs - same as most other companies.
CS Chairman was brought in to fix reputational damage and even said “ We are committed to developing a culture of personal responsibility and accountability.” He got fired because he asked to be exempted from quarantine, was told no, but went ahead anyway. They say lead by example for a reason. Nothing to do with “ weird artificial public images ” in my view
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### Author:  [@Wolverine](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Wolverine)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2022, 9:48pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/408 "2022-01-25T21:48:12Z")
> [@Patron](#):
>
> invited by a generous sales manager
They probably didn’t spend any of their own money, about as generous as a state official giving gifts on taxpayers dime. 😉
> [@Patron](#):
>
> What’s the problem with their public image?
I prefer the people handling/managing my wealth or guaranteeing the security of some of my assets (and that they are not mismanaging them) not to be caught being the last ones holding the bag in a disaster like Archegos. They can party all they like, but they have to be good at what they do. Credit Suisse has a history of taking too many risks and forgetting healthy risk management.
Also, I haven’t followed the news but following on @Barto’s comment and assuming it’s true that part of the reason Horta-Osório was nominated was to fix reputational damage, then getting caught means he’s not been doing the job properly. It doesn’t matter what the metrics for other CEOs’ performances are and what they can get away with, if part of his performance relied on attracting positive PR on the bank, then he failed to hold up to that metric and didn’t do the job properly. People who don’t do the job properly must face consequences, no matter if they are CEOs or if other CEOs evaluated based on other metrics can get away with what he did. Also, if you are not willing to do what it takes to do the job you’re hired for properly (for example, here, displaying an image of probity), then you shouldn’t take the job in the first place. Nobody forces you to sign on for a job you’re not qualified for.
You sound to me strangely complacent with what the corporate world does with shareholders money (who are the owner of the company and, as such, own all assets, including the cash used for the CEOs expenses) with regards to what you think of how the government uses taxpayers money.
Edit: also (emphasis mine):
> [@Patron](#):
>
> **just** a bit smarter
Don’t you think being smart is a desirable quality in a CEO? Do what you want, but don’t get caught. 😉
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### Author:  [@Barto](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Barto)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2022, 10:37pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/410 "2022-01-25T22:37:46Z")
> [@Patron](#):
>
> I suggest you hang out a bit with some investment banking folks or senior sales managers of large companies on Friday evenings and see what’s going on in reality
Where do you work - either you’ve been watching too much Wolf of Wall Street and are fantasising or I need to change!
Cant speak for Investment banking -but I can for large companies and whilst employees might go to those places it is not at all regular to expense it. Dinner and drinks yes and the odd celebration but not strippers!
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### Author:  [@scooby\_doo](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/scooby_doo)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2022, 1:22am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/412 "2022-01-27T01:22:41Z")
Hi all, please share your views on my below FinPension portfolio composition
I plan to invest world ex CH in IB. Swiss allocation is only on 3a.
Thank you.
CSIF (CH) III Equity World ex CH Quality - Pension Fund DB 59.0 %
CSIF (CH) Equity Switzerland Large Cap Blue ZB 30.0 %
CSIF (CH) Equity Switzerland Small & Mid Cap ZB 10.0 %
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### Author:  [@Burningstone](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Burningstone)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2022, 5:56am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/413 "2022-01-27T05:56:43Z")
Why such a high home bias? Do you believe Switzerland will outperform the rest of the world in the future? If you believe this, why only CH exposure in 3a and not with your other investments?
As a sidenote, a large part of the large cap CH companies get most of their revenues in foreign countries, so they are not that much “Swiss” as one would think.
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### Author:  [@scooby\_doo](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/scooby_doo)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2022, 8:44am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/414 "2022-01-27T08:44:41Z")
True, I was not thinking straight.
Will this be home bias neutral ?
CSIF (CH) III Equity World ex CH Quality - Pension Fund DB 94.0 %
CSIF (CH) Equity Switzerland Total Market Blue ZB 5%
Also, is there any similar quality fund available outside 3a
Appreciate the help!
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### Author:  [@dbu](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/dbu)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2022, 12:00pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/415 "2022-01-27T12:00:28Z")
> [@scooby\_doo](#):
>
> I plan to invest world ex CH in IB. Swiss allocation is only on 3a.
It all depends on how relatively big those two chunks are.
30% in 3a might be 3% overall.
Btw how do you invest in “World ex CH” in IB?
If you hold VT or VEA, you already are covering CH.
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### Author:  [@scooby\_doo](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/scooby_doo)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2022, 12:20pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/416 "2022-01-27T12:20:54Z")
True.
Also, with 2nd pillar - I will also already be covering CH.
To be honest, currently I am back almost completely in cash - cashed out in December. The no of etfs i had were bit too high anyways.
With 3a, I have around 120k (75k cashed out in Dec, 45k in Frankly - 45% plan) and plan to invest into FinPension perhaps splitting into 2 portfolios for now but same allocation - I am now seriously thinking only 99% value
For my saving, I have around 400k CHF and plan to DCA for 2022 and 2023, including savings of 4-5k each month.
I am thinking the following allocation considering the factor etfs thread - for now, underweight on US
```
TER Weight
US: AVUS 0.15% 25%
US small: AVUV 0.25% 10%
Intnl core : AVDE 0.23% 30%
Intnl small: AVDV 0.36% 10%
Emerging: AVES 0.36% 25%
Avg TER 0.26%
```
What do you think ? My timeframe to keep these holdings will be 25-30Y.
Cheers!
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### Author:  [@user137](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/user137)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2022, 10:23pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-solution-from-finpension/4522/417 "2022-01-27T22:23:28Z")
> [@scooby\_doo](#):
>
> What do you think ? My timeframe to keep these holdings will be 25-30Y.
a 25-yrs horizon is not something you plan once and fire-and-forget it.
I would not leave out the (mostly reliable) blue chips, what’s your reasoning?
some of us are in quality factor more than smallcaps.
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