3a solution from Finpension [2023]

thank you :slight_smile:

what is the best way to get the data from the factsheets of the funds and indices? Do you simply compare the country percentages with the reference index or also the individual companies?

and, is there any content on the topic of market replication? which tools can be used. which reference indices are available. etc.?

There are factsheets of indices, but I ended up taking daily updated countries weights from here:

And calculate weights of different geographic groups according to their definition MSCI in Excel.


Excel :joy:

MSCI are mostly used. Vanguard is using FTSE. Definitions are slightly different, so one should use indices from the same provider for a portfolio constructed from multiple funds.

Take a look at https://marketcaps.site/ for MSCI.

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do you compare all the individual holdings or just the geographical weighting, or the currency, or the economic sectors?

we love excel :smiley:

Normally you don’t get the individual holdings from a fund, except if you have Bloomberg.

Only geography. This is index provider’s decision how they sort out companies to different geographies. Another reason to use indices of the same family.

I don’t know if this news belongs in this thread, but I didn’t want to open a new topic with so little information.

Finpension seems to be preparing a private investment solution that could be interesting if it remains in a spirit of breaking up competition in Switzerland (which they are doing with their 3a solution).



Viac is rumoured to launch the same in 2024… interestin

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Another roboadvisor for taxable accounts? True Wealth and Selma had opened 3a investment, finpension moves in the opposite direction?

Well, more competition, better for us.

Cue the comments saying how 0.x% at finpension is more expensive than investing on your own with IBKR - let alone the tax advantages of U.S.-domiciled “World” index funds.

I’m going to wait and see what VIAC and Finpension come up with. If their plan is more interesting than my IBKR + VT combination, I might invest my monthly payments with one of them, even if it’s more expensive. It’s interesting to have my investments in Switzerland, but for now I’m comfortable with IBKR + VT.

When their offers are launched, I’ll see how I can customize their solution. If their solution is similar to Selma/True Wealth, it won’t be worth it.

Can you elaborate on the customization aspects you’re looking for?

As far as I remember, the customization possibilities at Selma and True Wealth are very different. True Wealth works, in principle, fairly similarly to custom strategies at finpension and VIAC 3a. The main difference being that the fund selection is more limited. I would expect taxable investments at finpension (and VIAC) to work similarly as well. The main questions are what funds will be available and what will the fees be.

Selma on the other hand doesn’t allow specifying allocations for individuals fund and the allocations are also somewhat dynamic. Probably closer to how traditional wealth management works except that you’re talking to a bot (and the portfolio management is less active than traditional).

I don’t expect they will offer anything that would interest people that are happy with selecting their own ETFs and directly investing at a broker. However, if the funds and fees are reasonable, it might be worth as recommendation for people who want a hands-off solution.

I would like to have something similar to VIAC/Finpension customization strategy but with more funds choice (Vanguard, iShares, UBS, Credit Suisse ?, Swisscanto ?, Mutual funds?).

What could be interesting is the fact to have an automatic investment like a robo-advisor, but also to set up a recurrent investment on the day X, for instance the day when I receive my pay check (I’ve set up this with Swissborg and I’m enjoying it a lot).

Me neither, although I’m really curious about it.

Not quite, Truewealth and Selma are ineffective as they use ETF - this both based on the additional TER, Trading Fees and Trading Tax. Using Zero TER Index Funds (and a percentage compensation to the brokerage) is more attractive. This especially as Finpension & Viac can aply market pressure & competition among CS/UBS, Swisscanto and Blackrock.

The second difference is that I expect Finpension / VIAC to not only be more efficient by not using ETF but as well that they do something on the tax side. This both from a tax efficiency point of view (putting the Expense into a Fund Construct / Wrapper that allows to offset it from taxable gains/distributions) and from the tax reporting point of view. Tax reporting and managing Tax Accruals on non-withheld Distributions with TrueWealth would kill me.

Ideally, they take your asset allocation, split it into comon asset combinations and this way ensure you only have 2-3 tax items - and that these deduct TER before distributions.

Sparbatze I think was quite good at their end (never used them) as they reflected 80% of a Portfolio with a combination of two funds.

So long story short - there is a long way you can go when you want to go beyond what Selma and Truewealth do. This particularely when you are digitally competent, have a Bank (VIAC) / Financial Advisor (Finpension) in your back and both loads of funding and time. Finpension first talked about this in 2021 I think so good knows what they all did in the meantime. It COULD be quite exciting.

You can count another member of the Quality club. Well… at least from the second banking day of next week :see_no_evil:

Welcome to the Quality Club :rocket: