# 3a: Are index funds really always better than ETFs?
**URL:** https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-are-index-funds-really-always-better-than-etfs/14098
**Category:** Banks, Insurances & Third Pillar
**Created:** [October 3, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-are-index-funds-really-always-better-than-etfs/14098 "2024-10-03T18:50:22Z")
**Posts on this page:** 7
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@covfefe](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/covfefe)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2024, 4:26pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-are-index-funds-really-always-better-than-etfs/14098/24 "2024-10-06T16:26:23Z")
> [@locenad](#):
>
> I wanted to fact-check “ETFs are always worse than index funds in 3a”. 😉
Is EM ETF/pension fund the only exception that proves the rule? In that case ignore EM in pillar 3a and but it in taxable account ( if 3a is \>10% of your total taxable + 3a). Otherwise the EM in your 3a is less than 1% of your overall allocation.
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### Author:  [@Abs\_max](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Abs_max)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2024, 4:27pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-are-index-funds-really-always-better-than-etfs/14098/25 "2024-10-06T16:27:03Z")
> [@locenad](#):
>
> Does somebody know if finpemsion also offerts ETFs in 3a? If not, that could also be the reason for this “no ETFs in 3a” statement…
No finpension does not offer ETFs in 3a. I think there is no real value add.
Perhaps for Emerging market ETF might add some value but a low cost/spread fund should also work
I think we have a bigger fish to fry and that is total fees (TER + management fees), lets focus on that 🙂
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### Author:  [@Abs\_max](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Abs_max)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2024, 4:49pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-are-index-funds-really-always-better-than-etfs/14098/26 "2024-10-06T16:49:36Z")
> [@Compounding](#):
>
> So upcoming thread: Truewealth vs. Finpension: The ultimate showdown
When it comes to **newer** 3rd pillar providers, most of them offer index approaches using index funds or ETFs. Most use same fund index fund providers (Swisscanto or UBS). So the difference boils down to flexibility of portfolio selection & ALL-IN-FEE.
For time being, following is the situation
- Truewealth -: 0.15% + some extra costs of FX & Stamp duties
- Finpension -: 0.39%
- VIAC -: 0.40% - 0.44% + some extra costs for FX
- Frankly -: 0.44% + some small TERs depending on strategies approx, 0.01-0.05%
So, I guess for time being, Truewealth wins as they are not charging any management fees.
Having said that, I like all four of them because in the end one will be cheaper than others because everyone cannot be the same.
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### Author:  [@gaijin](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/gaijin)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2024, 5:13pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-are-index-funds-really-always-better-than-etfs/14098/27 "2024-10-07T17:13:53Z")
> [@Compounding](#):
>
> Oh and while we’re at it: Nobody wants to pay Basel-Landschaft taxes for 3a redemptions, so kindly move your Stiftungssitz to Schwyz. You’re welcome.
I don’t fully follow. What does the Stiftungssitz have to do with 3a redemption taxes? When I redeem my 3a, it’s the canton of Zurich (in my case) whoes taxes apply. No?
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### Author:  [@nabalzbhf](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/nabalzbhf)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2024, 6:02pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-are-index-funds-really-always-better-than-etfs/14098/28 "2024-10-07T18:02:47Z")
Yes, the location of the foundation only matters for non-resident withdrawal (and people can always move their 3a before withdrawing if they need to).
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### Author:  [@nabalzbhf](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/nabalzbhf)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2024, 8:15pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-are-index-funds-really-always-better-than-etfs/14098/30 "2024-10-07T20:15:34Z")
You also attract people who just want to cash out. Not necessarily good for long term business.
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### Author:  [@Helix](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Helix)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2024, 4:16pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/3a-are-index-funds-really-always-better-than-etfs/14098/31 "2024-10-08T16:16:39Z")
Solvable by fees.
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